It is currently Thu Aug 27, 2026 7:42 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 
Author Message
rasco
 Post subject: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

OK, so I've flushed my coolant recently by using the tap at the bottom of the radiator. I refill but I don't seem to use much new coolant at all. I fill it till it's almost full.


Next day. Coolant has gone down. I think **** what have I done?! I check the tap, it's wet, the flap underneath it is wet too. I didn't tighten it up fully. I dry it off and tighten up the tap fully.

I continue to check the coolant for the next few days, including today. It's still going down, has nearly hit low today so I topped up again. I check the tap and the flap underneath it. Both are bone dry. Good!

The only other thing I've done in between is fit a RocSpeed induction kit, that involved repositioning the coolant hose that goes round the air box. When I say reposition - I pushed it out the way.....

So what I'm wondering; is it normal for the coolant level to drop for a few days after a flush, as it fills the system (I only wonder this as when I flushed it, towards the end it was peeing intermittently.....

Or, do I now have a leak - flukily at the same time as I flushed the system - I swear I only turned the tap at the bottom of the radiator on and off.....


Top
 Profile  
 
BJ_Rob
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 12:57 pm
Posts: 28
Reputation: 0

After you refilled it, did you run it to get warm, and then top it up again? The coolant level drop could just be air locks exiting the system and being replaced by coolant.


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:26 am 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

Yeah, it'll use a bit as it fills the heater matrix etc - I'd just keep an eye on it for a few days :)

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

awesome thanks both. I didn't run it to get warm, and it "using a bit to fill the heater matrix etc" is music to my ears marc!


Top
 Profile  
 
errnee
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 9:16 pm
Posts: 8341
Location: NorthWest
Reputation: 62

search around google and youtube for a how to / guide on coolant flush. :thumbright:

_________________
Image
The Mighty BeeJay


Top
 Profile  
 
Cyntax
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:12 pm
Posts: 2212
Location: Sussex, UK
Reputation: 29

Sounds silly, but if you disconnect the hose from the top of the rad, hold it up (higher than the block) and fill up from there. Worked a treat for me!


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:02 am 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

I did the RX7 in the summer...and one evening I "turned the heaters to maximum smoke" and there was a big burbling sound, and the low water light came on. Probably "drank" about ½litre :shock:

Always worth running the engine up to temp, with the heaters set to screen and max fan speed...should get the water round to everywhere ;)

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

ok cool thanks, I think I'll give that a go. It was my first time doing a coolant flush and I didn't have anyone near me to tell me what I was doing wrong.

All your help is much appreciated!!


Top
 Profile  
 
9000kev
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 665
Location: gravesend, kent
Reputation: 2

did you actually flush the radiator though? its always worth it,

once the coolant has been drained from the rad, put a running hose in the top of the rad and watch all the shit and gung come rushing out of the bottem of the rad, done this to my saab and the amount of gunk that came out was unbeliveable, and sure was more efficient.

_________________
BG GT - where it all began
saab ng900 * 265bhp * * 370nm * 20psi sleeper


Top
 Profile  
 
TheMAN
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:55 am
Posts: 1096
Reputation: 10

flushes are unnecessary if your cooling system was well maintained (changed at proper intervals and always using antifreeze instead of plain water)
if you use tap water (such as using a hose to flush), the water can build up deposits in the cooling systems due to minerals... depending on where you live, if the water is very hard, it will destroy your cooling system!

_________________
Protege FAQ, the best 323/Protege/Mazda3 resource enjoyed worldwide for 10 years


Top
 Profile  
 
9000kev
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 665
Location: gravesend, kent
Reputation: 2

it tells me to do this in the haynes manual, to use a hose to flush through the radiator.......

everywhere tells you to use tap water, http://www.techguys.ca/howto/coolant_flush.html

Step 7 - Rinse the Radiator
Now you're ready to do the actual rinsing! Simply take your garden hose, insert it's nozzle into the fill spout of the radiator, and let it run until full. Then open the petcock, and let the water drain out into the pan. Repeat until the water runs clear and be sure to funnel all the water used in the rinsing process into sealable containers, as you did with the used coolant. At this point, you should replace any worn clamps and hoses, if needed

taken from the castrol website http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=9012820&contentId=6004801

_________________
BG GT - where it all began
saab ng900 * 265bhp * * 370nm * 20psi sleeper


Top
 Profile  
 
TheMAN
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:55 am
Posts: 1096
Reputation: 10

Just because other people do it, doesn't mean you should. If people jumped off a bridge, should you too? :badgrin:

Tap water contains salts, calcium, and other minerals. When that stuff gets boiled, they leave scales on any surface it can settle on. When that stuff builds up in the radiator, it will clog it up, which reduces cooling efficiency. Once it gets bad enough, you will have problems.

This is why the informed people use demineralised water in their cooling system as there's nothing to cause problems in the water itself! Manufacturers have always been aware of this problem and so the trend is to do away with any antifreeze concentrates sold at dealerships but instead sell premixed jugs of coolant. Haynes manuals are also a very poor resource for those who want accurate information too. They are written for the laymen who don't know anything about cars or want to learn much about them except for simple basic maintenance. It has been my experience also that they have buggered up their repair procedures for certain things for certain cars as well as specifications. This is to be expected since they basically just copy information out of the real manuals that manufacturers publish but goof up doing so in the process (it's easy to do this when you got so much information to copy then rewrite). Nowhere in the factory's shop manual does it say to flush the cooling system, although usually nothing is said about using demineralised water either.

Both of those pages linked also are from North America, which compared to most parts of Europe have much softer water (except for certain areas which are served by well water) which in majority of cases causes no problems at all except for reducing the antifreeze's life. Many Japanese cars from the early 2000s or older uses the traditional antifreezes, but under a Japanese formulation which uses phosphates as the corrosion inhibitor (everyone has now switched to hybrid organics which does away with phosphates/silicates/borates). When a hard water is mixed with a phosphate based coolant, major build up occurring is not unexpected. This has never been an issue here in North America or Japan, but due to such an issue and the common public who never consider what's really in water ("if you can't see it, nothing else is there" mentality), European manufacturers were using borates as the corrosion inhibitor instead which does not have adverse issues with hard water.



Like I said, if your cooling system has always been well maintained using the proper methods, then a flush is completely unnecessary. If the coolant is all rusty brown, dark, etc-- anything that isn't green or dark green, then by all means suspect that the system has been neglected and there is rust/buildup inside.

My own car has 90000 miles on it now, the engine block still looks like new inside. Not a speck of rust inside the cooling passages when I took off the water pump at 60k. Just grey clean cast iron! :D What comes out of the radiator is also green and not a speck of dirt or rust. I always changed the coolant under the recommended schedule in the manual and always used distilled water to mix with the antifreeze. So anyone else who has been doing the same thing should not even have to worry about flushing or their cooling system.

_________________
Protege FAQ, the best 323/Protege/Mazda3 resource enjoyed worldwide for 10 years


Top
 Profile  
 
9000kev
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 665
Location: gravesend, kent
Reputation: 2

god knows what the previous owners have put in the coolant chamber though?

so surly its a good idea to flush the radiator?
i looked inside my coolant expansion tank and the color was a good bluey colour, but i still decided to flush my radiator as i wanted to see how dirty it was.

i was SHOCKED at what came out.

_________________
BG GT - where it all began
saab ng900 * 265bhp * * 370nm * 20psi sleeper


Top
 Profile  
 
TheMAN
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:55 am
Posts: 1096
Reputation: 10

That's unfortunate that the previous owners neglected the car :(
What you did was a good idea based on the observations

_________________
Protege FAQ, the best 323/Protege/Mazda3 resource enjoyed worldwide for 10 years


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:55 am 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

When I change the coolant for the first time, I flush the whole system through with tap water - it isn't particularly hard water in my area, and I find plenty of gunk comes out :)

I never fill the radiator with tap water though, I always use a mix of anti-freeze and distilled water :thumbleft:

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

level is down again today - hopefully for the last time! I had everything on full blast last night, did what I was told!


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:16 am 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

If you get stuck and need a hand, I'm about on Sunday :)

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
TheMAN
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:55 am
Posts: 1096
Reputation: 10

rasco wrote:
level is down again today - hopefully for the last time! I had everything on full blast last night, did what I was told!


you really need to be doing this the proper way...
park the car on a hill if you can, with front of car facing uphill... otherwise, raise the front of the car as you can, this makes clearing airlocks easier.... this is all purely optional for our cars, but it will make the process much easier/faster :)

start the engine COLD with the radiator cap off! let it warm up... fit a funnel into the radiator neck... this will reduce spillage coming out of the radiator somewhat... squeeze hoses if you can to help get the air out... if you feel uncomfortable doing this with a running engine, turn it off and do it, it helps a lot!

once the engine is warmed up, the level should go down and you should see air bubbles at the radiator neck also... top up as necessary... when no more appears to go in, rev the motor up to 2000rpm and hold it for a minute to see if anything changes... if coolant does not go down by appears to start to rush out of the radiator, then it is time to put the cap on as quickly as possible!


that's all you have to do! it still won't be perfect but it will be much better than what you have done so far... be sure to overfill the reservoir bottle as any air that escapes the radiator will pull any reserves back in overnight... it should take a few hours of driving at the most to get the rest of the air out :)

running the heater is unnecessary with our cars also as there is no heater control valve for the hoses, unlike other cars such as toyotas :)

_________________
Protege FAQ, the best 323/Protege/Mazda3 resource enjoyed worldwide for 10 years


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:01 am 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

TheMAN wrote:
running the heater is unnecessary with our cars also as there is no heater control valve for the hoses, unlike other cars such as toyotas :)


True, in the F the water just flows through the heater matrix anyway...I guess it's just a habit I've got into over the last 20 odd years :lol:
If in doubt, have the heater running - it'll do no harm, and if you don't know the ins and outs of the particular car, it's the best bet ;)

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

that looks rather complex. Is there any harm in just topping up daily until the fluid level stops dropping? Or should I be worrying more about the airlocks in my system?


Top
 Profile  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

or are you basically saying I should take the radiator cap off to let air out through there, and keep topping up while the engine is going until coolant starts coming out from the top of the radiator?

Sorry to sound dumb, but having never done it before I need it spelt out for me.....


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:21 pm 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

Sounds more complicated than it is to be honest.

Just open the rad cap, run it til warm, the air will come round to the open rad :) and yes, top it up as necessary through the rad while you're doing it.

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

lol ^^ excellent, may try doing it this lunchtime. How close to the rad cap opening should the coolant get before I put the cap back on, or should it literally be spilling out?


Top
 Profile  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

and (sorry for all the ******* daft questions) I top up at the rad cap, where the air is coming out? Why can't I just top up at the coolant reservoir?


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:25 pm 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

right to the top, it'll sit there, and then drop as it gets the air out, top it up a bit then...

once it's warmed up, and the level seems stable, put the cap back on, and make sure your header tank has plenty in it, it might draw some more in after a good drive, so it'll need to be on the max :)

I'll pm you my number, call me if you get stuck :)

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:27 pm 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

your reservoir is an expansion tank - the system uses it to draw more fluid from, and then chucks it back in when it's hot...
For this job, fill it up at the radiatior ;)

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
rasco
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:12 am
Posts: 924
Reputation: 8

awesome cheers marc. will defo give this a go. God I'm grateful for all your help, marc, TheMAN and everyone else....


Top
 Profile  
 
Marc S
 Post subject: Re: oh for **** sake!!
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:31 pm 
UK Events Manager Offline
User avatar

My Car: 1st Gen RX7

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:46 am
Posts: 13779
Location: "Rust?...I ain't got time to rust"
Reputation: 95

No worries, that's what we're here for buddy :)

_________________
Image

Paragon Auto Finishing
Professional vehicle detailing & valeting, specialising in paint correction and enhancement
Servicing, repairs, and undersealing also available
Discounts available for Gold Members :)


Top
 Profile Facebook  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Protected by Anti-Spam ACP Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Karma functions powered by Karma MOD © 2007, 2009 m157y