Hydraulic lifters

**Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:25 am

My tappets are giving me grief

Its a 125k mile 1.8 and i think the tappets have run their course... They are really noisey nowadays. Only cured by a top up of oil which lasts for two weeks or so.

I know the only option is to have them replaced or repaired if possible. This is a big job. If the cam shafts have to come out... the timing belt has to come off... if the timing belt has to come off... the engine mount has to come off... if this happens i may aswell take the head off and replace the head gasket while im at it.

This is a big job. Can i do it myself in a week or so? Im seriously considering selling it before things break and getting the V6 a little earlier than i had planned heh.

**Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:09 am

I've got the same thing going on with mine (114K miles). They rattle on startup for a couple of seconds and then the rest of the top end sounds like a bag of spanners until it's warm. I'm suspecting tappets and cam shafts, though I think the valve seals are on their way out aswell, which means head off.

So, do I buy a new car or sort out the problems with this engine and while I'm at it mod it?

I think tappets are quite expensive by the time you've bought them all (16?).

How hard is it to take the head off?
How much resetting up is there to do if the cam shafts and tappets are changed?

Might just give it to someone else to do (unless I buy a new car?!).

Not going to be until well into next year either way, unless I blow the engine up at Japfest :twisted: (or before).

Mark

**Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:08 pm

Its not hard taking the head off from my experience.. its just time consuming. The hardest part i can see is the timing belt which will hav to come off. Unless theres markings... getting the timing right could proove impossible lol

I had another play this morning... a touch more oil seems to cure rattles.. But its not the best solution

**Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:56 pm

[quote="fastmike"]The hardest part i can see is the timing belt which will hav to come off. Unless theres markings... getting the timing right could proove impossible lol
[/quote]

That's the bit I'm most worried about!

Mark

**Posted:** Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:18 pm

Our cars dont have tappets, They have Hydraulic lifters. You can find out which ones u need to replace instead of doing the whole lot which will cost abit of $$$.

Heres a link on how to test them.
http://www.mazda323performance.com/foru ... php?t=4033

-Mick

**Posted:** Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:13 am

[quote]
Remove valve cover.

Find a 0.015" feeler gauge (I used 0.014" and it worked fine)

Draw 2 rows of 8 circles on a peice of paper.

If you're lucky a couple lobes should be pointing up.

Try to stick the feeler gauge between the cam and hla.

If it fits put an X in the corresponding circle on your peice of paper.
If it doesn't fit put a check mark in the circle.

You can also push on the hla and feel a bad one squish down.

Get a 21mm socket to turn the engine over.

Turn the engine over a little and repeat on the next lobes the point up.

Repeat, repeat.
[/quote]

Cheers unleash... I shall give this a shot asap

**Posted:** Wed Nov 24, 2004 8:54 am

[quote="UNL35H"]Our cars dont have tappets, They have Hydraulic lifters. [/quote]

Cheers Mick, you're right. Just seems to be a generic word used for the same thing - wrong of course!

I notice this seems to be for the B6T engine - its the same as for BP05 yeah?

Some really handy links there! Cheers

Mark

**Posted:** Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:42 pm

Right update...

Whipped the rocker cover off the engine the other day and took the 0.015" feeler guage to the lifters and it didnt pass under the cams on any of them. I even tried with a 0.010" thick one too and it didnt pass either. So I think my lifters are fine... but it still rattles on start up then dies down after a while.

Took some pics with my phone, and just used the bluetooth dongle to download the images

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/Picture(7).jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/8.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/Picture(9).jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.carltonmotorco.com/mazda/engine/Picture(10).jpg[/img]

**Posted:** Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:13 am

Those are good pics for a phone, Mike.

I think a rattle that goes away shortly after start-up is normal on an engine with hydraulic valve lifters, they are a bit loose until the oil pressure builds up (fed from your engines oil system). My V6 (106,000 miles) does it, as did my Ibiza. If the rattle doesn't go away they will need replacing.

**Posted:** Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:01 pm

My "tappets" also rattle for a second or two when cold (1.8 16v - 170,000 km's) but quickly goes away. I use it as a service indicator - when it takes longer than a couple of seconds, it's time to change the oil !

I usually wait 'till the rattling stops before revving the engine ...

**Posted:** Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:41 pm

If it doesn't go away within a few seconds on mine I have to put more oil in!!

I usually wait 'till the rattling stops and the smoke has cleared before revving the engine ... :roll:

Mark

**Joined:** Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:40 pm **Posts:** 187

mike

the pics are ace! i think i now understand the 'how to' further up the page. the HLA's are the little silver things under the cams! yes???

if its not the HLA's i remember reading a while ago about something called the friction gear. does anyone know anything about it, what it looks like etc etc? dont think i am going to pull the head off of my engine just yet, think i might get a mate involved as well!!!

will

**Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:34 pm

Yes teh silver cylinders under the cams are the hydraulic lifters and its not hard taking the 'cam cover' off its just a few pipes and bolts. The cover comes off easily. To check the lifters you find the ones that are not under load of the cam if that makes sense. And turn the engine over by hand to do ones that are underload.

I redid the test and have found 6 of the lifters at fault. Im not sure why they didnt show up in the original test, perhaps because the engine is tapping away more than ever has something to do with it lol.

Anyway whats the prices like on these buggers?

**Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:14 pm

[quote="fastmike"]I redid the test and have found 6 of the lifters at fault. Im not sure why they didnt show up in the original test, perhaps because the engine is tapping away more than ever has something to do with it lol.
[/quote]

Possibly, you did the test the first time soon after running the engine, so there was still pressure in the lifters, but the second time maybe the engine had been standing longer and the pressure had dropped ???

**Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:21 pm

Am I being dumb? Surely hydraulic lifters are self-adjusting and should always maintain the right clearance to the cam lobe, and only need replacing when they are worn enough to be loose (so they rattle sideways) in the head???

**Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:51 pm

[quote="Smotter"][quote="fastmike"]I redid the test and have found 6 of the lifters at fault. Im not sure why they didnt show up in the original test, perhaps because the engine is tapping away more than ever has something to do with it lol.
[/quote]

Possibly, you did the test the first time soon after running the engine, so there was still pressure in the lifters, but the second time maybe the engine had been standing longer and the pressure had dropped ???[/quote]

I did it both after the engine had run a little. The first time the engine was running silently - no tapping. The second there was tapping. Go figure

**Posted:** Thu Dec 02, 2004 8:29 pm

[quote="Marky Mark"]Am I being dumb? Surely hydraulic lifters are self-adjusting and should always maintain the right clearance to the cam lobe, and only need replacing when they are worn enough to be loose (so they rattle sideways) in the head???[/quote]

They are adjusted by oil pressure inside them vis small oil ways. The oil ways get clogged over time so the oil pressure cant build up enough so they rattle. If you've got HLA rattle, the first thing to do is to change the oil, drain it while the engine is at operating temperature (stopped obviously) and let it drain for an hour or so. Some people like flushing agents :roll:

The friction gear noise is caused by a dished washer on the end of one of the cam shafts lossing it's springyness

**Posted:** Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:28 pm

Just found this, could be useful if you want to recondition them.

http://www.nuvision.ndo.co.uk/tappets.htm

Might pass on a recon but will see how much the new ones are.

**Posted:** Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:16 pm

ok I've been to two professional auto parts shops and neither stock or can order the lifters or followers as one place called them!

Looks like its a Mazda only part which I just know will cost an arm and a leg. :cry:

I dont know what to do, try and recondition them myself or get the new ones fitted.

**Joined:** Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:40 pm **Posts:** 187

mike

what did you do in the end? did you replace them or just turn the stereo up? i know this was over a year ago!

**Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:01 am

Christ that was a year ago!

Well I have just lived with it, actually I've started using fully synthetic oil and it solves the problem totally!! I think its 10w/40 halfords stuff.

Only time i get rattles is when the oils getting low but I'm amazed it cured itself with some better oil!

**Posted:** Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:51 am

If I take the rocker cover off the engine, at what torque do I need to screw it again?

Thanks...

**Posted:** Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:44 pm

Just nip the bolts up. Tighten opposing bolts a bit at a time to tighten the cover down evenly onto the gasket.

Mark

Hydraulic lifters

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