[quote]by the way, the 323F ECU is not adaptive. I.E it does not "learn" as you drive
[/quote]
Woah!
Thats a blunt suggestion! what makes you say that?
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| 323 BA ECU/PCM http://www.club323f.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1787 |
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| Author: | tucker101uk [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | 323 BA ECU/PCM |
[quote]by the way, the 323F ECU is not adaptive. I.E it does not "learn" as you drive [/quote]
Woah! Thats a blunt suggestion! what makes you say that? |
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| Author: | Wai.Cheung [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 1:34 pm ] |
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"by the way, the 323F ECU is not adaptive. I.E it does not "learn" as you drive:)" ...it isn't?!:shock: ..DAMN; I'll have to stop trying to 'teach' it to go faster!!:lol: |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:31 pm ] |
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[quote="tucker101uk"]Woah! Thats a blunt suggestion! what makes you say that?[/quote] What makes me say what 
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| Author: | tucker101uk [ Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
that the 323f doesnt have an adaptive ECU... doesnt that go against the principle of having an ECU? |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
No, the ECU (Mazda officially can it a PCM, Powertrain Control Module) is mapped at the factory to behave how it does at with what is assumed to be a perfect engine. Ford (Mazda 626GF) use an adaptive memory which does learn (Refered to as a Keep Alive Memory) when the battery is disconected this will re-learn as you drive. All cars built after Jan 2001 also have to have a KAM to meet EOBD regulations. They have for example Long Term Fuel Trim. The emmissions are monitored by the PCM, as the engine wears over time adjustments to the injected fuel amount are made by the PCM to keep the burn as clean as possible. Also Short Term Fuel Trim is used to change fuel injection more instantly. This information can be viewed with the correct equipment to assertain how the engine is running (richer or leaner that the Mapped figure). Obviously if the PCM can't compenste because too much change would be needed to bring the mixture right again say an air leak in the intake tract then the Malfunction Indicator Light on the dash would be lit advising the driver that the car needed to be looked at. It time I think it will become an offence to drive a car with the MIL on. Anyway, sorry about the long post. Tucker101uk, why would not having an adaptive ECU go against the principle of having an ECU. The purpose of an ECU is to monitor inputs and operate outputs, it's not paid to make it's own decisions 
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| Author: | Mark.T [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Ah, cheers for that Robbie. So why do Mazda charge ~£40 to 'reset the ECU'? 
Mark |
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| Author: | Artermis [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:09 am ] |
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at a guess, as to why the charge you, i would have thourght that they reflash the ecu. which basicly means that they reinstall the software that should be on there. |
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| Author: | tucker101uk [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
So - they redownload the ECU firmware and make use of your money to go to the pub at lunch time.... What about after the ford facelift? Did the install 'KAM' ECUs then??? Also - as my ECU doesnt learn stuff - what happens when i fill my tank for the first time with the good ol optimax!? |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:40 pm ] |
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You can't 'Flash' a BA PCM either, I reckon if your dealer tells you they are resetting the PCM they mean reseting the Base Idle and Inital Ignition Timing. Ford Facelift Why would your PCM need to learn that you have put Optimax in it
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| Author: | Marky Mark [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:11 pm ] |
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Doesn't the Lambda sensor tell the ECU if the fuel is burning properly, which is affected by the fuel grade, amongst other things? |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:39 pm ] |
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The Lambda or Oxygen sensor only tells the PCM the Air/Fuel ratio (by sensing the Oxygen content in the exhaust gas) so the PCM can richen/weaken the mixture as required to get an AFR of 14.7/1 or Lambda 1. This is the air fuel ratio that a catalyst is most effective. The grade or octane number of fuel is it's resistance to detonation while giving a fast burn Anyway, slightly off topic here, should this by moved to a new thread Mod
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| Author: | Mark.T [ Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:47 pm ] |
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[quote]Anyway, slightly off topic here, should this by moved to a new thread Mod Question[/quote] Good idea - done. Tom, I've editted your post at the top of this topic so it makes sense - hope you don't mind. Mark |
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| Author: | tucker101uk [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
No mark, good plan. Robbie - bout 96 the BA got an overhaul - most noticably recieved some nice lingerie (in the form of bump strips!!!!) So what i meant was did the overhaul include a better ECU??? |
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| Author: | Mr akimoto [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
They told me that you can reset it the following way. Lose the battery. Turn your headlights on for some minutes. The ECU has been reseted. Then start the engine and let it run for about 10 minutes. Don't touch anything. First it runs like crap, but it corrects itself. Then drive it like you want to drive. Now it's learning. |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:54 pm ] |
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[quote="tucker101uk"] Robbie - bout 96 the BA got an overhaul - most noticably recieved some nice lingerie (in the form of bump strips!!!!) So what i meant was did the overhaul include a better ECU???[/quote] Nah, same car, different badge
With regard to resetting ECU, the procedure you describe sounds more like the procedure for clearing fault codes on an MX-5 (probably the same on early BA's) except you hold your foot on the brake pedal instead of turning on the headlamps
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| Author: | Mark.T [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 9:38 am ] |
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[quote="Roadster Robbie"]Nah, same car, different badge [/quote]
Upto a point, but there are a load of subtle engine differences. The later gearboxes (1.  are slightly weaker (aparently), the clutch is smaller (1.and some other subtle bits were left off like a resonator box on the intake between the airflow meter and intake manifold.
Mark |
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| Author: | nickj633 [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:09 pm ] |
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So to clear up a few points, is it therefore pointless using a higer octane fuel (eg optimax) as the ECU will ignore any increase in the octane rating and simply cause an increase in the richness of the mixture setting? If this is the case am i imagining the reduction in the 'pinking' now that i'm using optimax, or has the engine done something else to prevent this. I understood it that the ECU had adapted the timing to the better octane fuel.
Nick |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The V6 has a knock sensor fitted in the middle of the "V". The PCM will advance the timing as engine speed increases if knock is detected the PCM retards the timing a bit to prevent it. Optimax will allow the timing to be advanced further without knock occuring
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| Author: | wai.cheung01 [ Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:59 pm ] |
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How far can you go with octane ratings before the engine doe sitself an injury? ...or would it just start to become meaningless once you get to the maximum compression that an engine is designed to operate within? ..IS there a maximum? or would the knock sensor just allow an infinite level of compression? :twisted: BANG! "..is that a PISTON sticking out of your bonnet, or are you just pleased to see me?!" |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:05 am ] |
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High compression causes Pre Ignition. This is when the air/fuel mixture ignites itself before the spark occurs. Retarded the timing won't cure this. A really high octane fuel should prevent this
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| Author: | wai.cheung01 [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:07 am ] |
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..at what point would you not notice any gains from high octane fuel? ...would the engine 'luch' itself by then or would it happily guzzle 110 RON? (for example)? |
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:15 am ] |
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Sorry Wai, I can't offer figures as to what is good and whats not, I'm not really that up on the pros and cons of fuels/oils etc I reckon (this is my opinion only) that the most benefit from a high octane fuel is only gained when the engine is "designed" to run on that octane. If you say up the compression, then up the octane. Like if you put big brakes on a 1.2 nova and leave the engine stock You tell me, what is the advantage of Shell optimax be sides the cleaning aditives and making your car lighter I've never used it 
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| Author: | Dragon Rob [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:17 am ] |
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[quote]I reckon (this is my opinion only) that the most benefit from a high octane fuel is only gained when the engine is "designed" to run on that octane[/quote] Hooray for the Japs Type R! \:D/ \:D/ |
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| Author: | wai.cheung01 [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:22 am ] |
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....it's all in the CHIP...... better start budgeting one for next year!! 
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| Author: | Roadster Robbie [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:25 am ] |
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Just found [url=http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question90.htm]this[/url], seems my opinion wasn't far off
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| Author: | Dragon Rob [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:28 am ] |
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[quote]....it's all in the CHIP...... [/quote] Hooray for chipped Type R! \:D/ \:D/ (Sorry, still very happy with my car, could you guess!) |
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| Author: | wai.cheung01 [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:32 am ] |
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Yup, read it before. Howstuffworks is an excellent site for general knowledge on just about anything!!! I was trying to find out what kind of octane (and therefore compression) the V6 engine can deal with and at what point it would be a waste of money on expensive fuel and octane boosters (and the Fuel Cat thing that I have been looking at......) At present my car does feel a little 'sharper' with the responses when I add octane booster to take the rating from Optimax 98 to about 100RON (as the JAP cars like it!) ...I was wondering if the engine would be sharper still with more RONage! :twisted: |
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| Author: | Mark.T [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
The higher the RON, the less likely the fuel/air charge will explode under compression. High octane fuels need to be run with engines with a very high compression ratio and hot turbos. Really high performance Jap engines need higher octanes (imported Imprezas ans EVOs etc.) - like 100+ RON. If the intake charge explodes too early it will damage the pistons and valves etc. Imagine if the charge explodes as the piston is rising, theres nowhere for the extra pressure to go. It will just heat up and do nasty things. The sticker on my petrol flap says 'At least 95RON' - why run on the minimum - so I go the extra and use the Opimax 98RON with it's detergents aswell. Mark |
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| Author: | chris 323f [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:13 pm ] |
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im with mark on this one, my 1.8 hates 95ron, on cold mornings it took three clicks to start!! as soon as i swaped to 97ron starts first time!! also i belive it improves throtal response. although my 1.5 did not mind 95ron?? |
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| Author: | Marky Mark [ Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:24 pm ] |
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Are we OK to use LRP, which is 97 RON? I don't think we have a Shell garage in Yeovil, but Tesco sell LRP. |
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