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Club323F • View topic - BJ - AeroX's Supercharged 1.5L (page 8, dyno results)

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AeroX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:41 am 
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The only bit about the software that's difficult is the car config, getting an accurate weight for the car (i had to guess). Then just make sure the log files are trimmed to just before WOT and end just after you let off the throttle.

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323F Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:52 am 
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does it matter what gear your in?
What inputs are needed as currently I'm not logging speed, but i will be in the future

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AeroX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:03 am 
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Yes, make sure you tell it what gear it was done in as the gear ratios effect the HP curve as its easier to rev in low gear compared to high.
Only time, throttle position and rpm are needed. Boost and AFR are optional.

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Marc S
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Right...that's it...I need to give my Sport some boost!!!

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323F Rock
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:09 am 
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Cheers Matt, last question I have,
how long do you need to be WOT for?

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AeroX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:11 am 
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From as low as you feel safe (usually around 3K) until just before red line

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eogbaker
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Yeah gives it a go Nathan. Like I said I found one American dyno tuner who uses hub dynos and was comparing the results and there was only ever a Max of 5hp difference between the hub dyno and the virtual dyno. Cheers for the info.

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AeroX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:46 pm 
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[quote="AeroX"]I've finally got round to putting the WOT logs I made into VirtualDyno which previously before having the charger connected up predicted the power to be ~72WHP/76LBFT.
The average of the 3 runs with the charger connected up and roughly mapped in has come back as ~196WHP/190LBFT :shock:

Yes the car feels a lot faster but I'm finding that figure hard to believe as it's way more then I expected, but would explain how I was able to keep with some more powerful cars on the track day.

[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/183.jpg[/img][/quote]

Right I've worked out why the figures are coming back so high, I had entered the stock weight of the 323F, however I've done a fair bit of weight saving in the car (removing all rear trim/seats/belts, removed carpet, partially removed sound deadening etc) so the figures are what power the car would have if it was stock weight. I'll try to get a correct weight for the car this weekend if I can find a local weighbridge. I've also found a local dyno company that charge £66 for a power run so might consider doing that sometime soon.

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:17 pm 
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You need to keep you really ears open for a dyno day as it's normally only about £30 for a power run on a dyno day

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AeroX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:32 pm 
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[quote="eogbaker"]You need to keep you really ears open for a dyno day as it's normally only about £30 for a power run on a dyno day[/quote]
I've seen them go for around this much but I usually don't have anything worth testing at the time. I'll probably hold out for a while and try and find a cheaper one.

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Hahaha just looked over what I wrote. Got to love phones and their predictive text lol

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AeroX
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:47 pm 
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[quote="protege"]...
any 0-60 time indications?
That celica (stock) should be good for a 8.7 sec.
So you ticked of at least 3.7 seconds of the factory 1.5 BJ specs if he was trying hard :o)

There are some apps for android/iphone that can measure g-forces (like the G-tech pro-device does/did)
and make reasonably accurate measurements.
...[/quote]
Got Torque setup on my phone and used GPS speed to try and record a 0-60mph run, found an empty minor dual carriageway with good viability front and back and did a launch to see what the 0-60 would be, managed to spin the wheels abit which might effect the timing but managed to do 9.05 seconds, also had a full tank of fuel at the time.
[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/191.jpg[/img]
^The best figure rounded this up to 9.1s, the other figures are rubbish (vehicle weight isn't set right for the HP meter and 60-?? is rubbish as it's meant to be started from a stable speed of 60)

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Last edited by AeroX on Wed May 29, 2013 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AeroX
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:02 am 
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I went SantaPod this weekend and managed to get some timings for the car on the drag strip.
Unfortunately they allocated me and another person the same number so my timing slip has loads of lines on it which are for a different car but by looking at the finishing speed I've removed the other persons runs (which where alot faster).

So rather then upload a scan of the timing slip I've put them in a table.
[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/192.jpg[/img]

[b]Best run[/b]
Reaction: 0.7997
60ft: 2.6156 sec
330ft: 7.1273 sec
1/8 mile: 10.8679 sec @ 66.08 MPH
1/4 mile: 16.8835 sec @ 81.69 MPH


My previous best run before fitting the charger:
[quote="AeroX"][b]Best run[/b]
Reaction: 0.9737 sec
60ft: 2.9056 sec
330ft: 8.0826 sec
1/8 mile: 12.3783 sec @ 57.98 MPH
1/4 mile: 19.1287 sec @ 71.69 MPH[/quote]
So knocked 2.25 seconds off the quarter mile time and finished 10 mph faster. Not too bad :D

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AeroX
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:15 pm 
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The car has now been dyno'd so I have an idea at what the powers currently at, the car still needs more done to it to get it running better.

Funnily I had to perform some emergency surgery to the car while it was on the dyno.
We got the car on the dyno and during the warm up and calibration run it stopped igniting on one of the cylinders. We could tell this by the way it was running rough and that the catalyst had started glowing red hot from all the fuel going straight into it, so we had to turn the car off.

I told the people that something like this had happened previously due to the car sometimes running rich at idle and it had fowling the plugs which caused them to misfiring; and that I had previously fixed this by just cleaning them up.

So they gave me one of their ratchet and a few sockets to take the coil packs out so that I could get the plugs out. Once I had the plugs out they wire brushed them and cleaned them up with a bit of WD40, they also re-gapped them a tad smaller and gave them to me to put back.
Once they where all back in it was running on all 4 cylinders again.

So after all that I eventually got to do the power run and below is the dyno result I got back.

[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/199.jpg[/img]

The guys that did the power run for me said that they reckon the cone airfilter on the car is too small and that a slightly bigger one would flow better they also said the one currently on there was filthy lol.

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:25 pm 
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not bad going... so how much is that over stock? now am I right in guessing this is before mapping right? also did they give you a Lambda read out as that might help if you are self tuning

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AeroX
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:35 pm 
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[quote="eogbaker"]not bad going... so how much is that over stock? now am I right in guessing this is before mapping right? also did they give you a Lambda read out as that might help if you are self tuning[/quote]
This is with some basic mapping done by myself which I tried to target quite rich AFRs, unfortunately there wasn't a lambda read out.
Compared to a factory stock engine it is approximately a 50% increase (stock 86hp, current 128hp, increase 42hp).

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:01 am 
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Wonder what it would take to make 100% gains and if the engine would manage

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AeroX
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:45 pm 
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[quote="eogbaker"]Wonder what it would take to make 100% gains and if the engine would manage[/quote]
For 100% gains I've calculated that I'd need the next size up SC (Eaton M62) with a 2.6" SC pulley which would be making around 1bar of boost.

The M62 isn't much bigger in size than the M45 so could fit in the same mounting space. *runs to search ebay for a M62*

I think the automatic gearbox would give in before the engine so using that as my mechanical fuse :lol:

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bikingpro5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:20 pm 
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[quote="AeroX"][quote="eogbaker"]Wonder what it would take to make 100% gains and if the engine would manage[/quote]
For 100% gains I've calculated that I'd need the next size up SC (Eaton M62) with a 2.6" SC pulley which would be making around 1bar of boost.

The M62 isn't much bigger in size than the M45 so could fit in the same mounting space. *runs to search ebay for a M62*

I think the automatic gearbox would give in before the engine so using that as my mechanical fuse :lol:[/quote]

I have an M62 on my car with a larger crank pulley and it works great. If you need dimensions or anything let me know.


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eogbaker
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Oooooo do it 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

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AeroX
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:44 pm 
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[quote="eogbaker"]Oooooo do it 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)[/quote]
My wallet is crying at the thought.

Just swapping the M45 to the M62 should give ~30HP extra (@0.8bar) and then if I got the smaller 2.6" pulley it's another ~20HP (@1bar).

But I'd have to make new mounting brackets and inlet/outlet manifolds, I'd also need bigger (300cc) injectors as the current ones are maxed.

P.S. The M62 is clutched so I could use the existing A/C button to switch the charger on and off :roll:

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eogbaker
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ahhh but surely as your current set up is set up to be direct fit for an F you can sell the full kit ready to fit and thus pay for the new charger and stuff needed

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AeroX
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:58 pm 
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[quote="eogbaker"]ahhh but surely as your current set up is set up to be direct fit for an F you can sell the full kit ready to fit and thus pay for the new charger and stuff needed[/quote]
True but Lee's hasn't sold yet and by the end of this week it will have been in for sale section for a month. Seams not many people are daring to take on the FI conversion plunge.

That thing where you "accidently" press make an offer just happened whilst viewing a M62 on ebay :lol:

Edit: And the sellers just gone and "accidently" accepted my offer

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bikingpro5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:55 pm 
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[quote="AeroX"][quote="eogbaker"]Oooooo do it 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)[/quote]
My wallet is crying at the thought.

Just swapping the M45 to the M62 should give ~30HP extra (@0.8bar) and then if I got the smaller 2.6" pulley it's another ~20HP (@1bar).

But I'd have to make new mounting brackets and inlet/outlet manifolds, I'd also need bigger (300cc) injectors as the current ones are maxed.

P.S. The M62 is clutched so I could use the existing A/C button to switch the charger on and off :roll:[/quote]

M62 right now on Mazdas24/7 for 100US plus shipping. Also the fact you can turn the SC off and on with the AC switch or any switch for that matter is the best in my opinion. when i leave the car with someone i flip the switch and the car is now NA


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AeroX
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:46 pm 
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[quote="bikingpro5"][quote="AeroX"][quote="eogbaker"]Wonder what it would take to make 100% gains and if the engine would manage[/quote]
For 100% gains I've calculated that I'd need the next size up SC (Eaton M62) with a 2.6" SC pulley which would be making around 1bar of boost.

The M62 isn't much bigger in size than the M45 so could fit in the same mounting space. *runs to search ebay for a M62*

I think the automatic gearbox would give in before the engine so using that as my mechanical fuse :lol:[/quote]

I have an M62 on my car with a larger crank pulley and it works great. If you need dimensions or anything let me know.[/quote]
What boost pressure are you running with yours? And what pulley ratio are you using?

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bikingpro5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:48 pm 
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[quote="AeroX"]
What boost pressure are you running with yours? And what pulley ratio are you using?[/quote]

8-10psi is what i see on the gauge when using the larger pulley, 4-6psi is what i see using the OE pulley. Ill have to get the larger pulley dimensions for you tomorrow


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AeroX
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Taken one of the fuel injectors out of the car so I can measure it up to buy new ones as the 155cc stock ones are maxed out with the current charger (Eaton M45).

[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/210.jpg[/img]
^ The stock Denso #195500-3110 used on the 1.5L & 1.6L.

[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/211.jpg[/img]
[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/212.jpg[/img]
[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/213.jpg[/img]
^ Measurements 75mm length, 10mm fuel rail, 9mm manifold hole & around 15.5-16mm manifold counter-bore.

Armed with the fuel injector measurements I started looking online but couldn't find anything useful. Then through pure coincidence in the ebay similar items section there was a set of 300cc fuel injectors which look exactly the same as the one I've got out the car.

[url=http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370806263035][img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/214.jpg[/img][/url]

[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/215.jpg[/img]
^That looks like the same fitting to me and their in price range at £125. Only thing is the seller doesn't list any measurements for me to confirm, so going to send him a message asking for dimensions.

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eogbaker
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Well that is a lucky find

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AeroX
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:53 pm 
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The new supercharger I "accidently" bought on Monday evening arrived today.

Only slight worry is that it looks like the previous car emptied it's engine oil through it.
[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/216.jpg[/img]

I've checked that the lobes still turn properly but haven't checked that the electro-magnetic clutch works. I've since cleaned up all the oil and left it all to dry out. I've had to drain the gear oil out of it while disassemble it so I have to buy some more for when I put it back together. Unfortunately phone ran out of battery so wasn't able to take more pictures.

I'm wondering whether to changing the lobe bearings while I've got it apart and also wondering whether to try and port & polish the inlet slightly as I've been reading that there are benefits in doing so.

Putting this here for my self or others that are interested in the benefits of porting a supercharger: [url=http://www.redlineforums.com/forums/939972-post22.html]Explanation of methods & benifits[/url]

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AeroX
PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:41 pm 
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I've made a new set of pulley calculations for the M45 with an adjustment value so that I can match the predicted BHP to what was measured on the dyno.
[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/217.jpg[/img]

I then copied this and repopulated it with the M62 specs.
[img]http://mattjj21.co.uk/dump/218.jpg[/img]

So swapping the M45 for the M62 should give an increase of 18HP to ~145HP and in the future there is the opportunity to play with pulleys and make up to around ~180 HP, whether the engine and gearbox would take that though is something else to worry about later.

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